Concerning alot of the popular practices of the modern Church we are so familiar with! This in particular pertains to famous and popular charismatic preachers and company. Hey you decipher the rest! I just do the posting to provoke thought!
Prostrate in a form of worship. Not what we see today in "slayings".
Worship:
All these "falling down'' experiences described in the Bible occur facedown. Bowing down in a facedown manner is an act of worship. The Psalmist says: "Come, let us bow down in worship'' (Psalm 95:6a NIV).
An example: Ezekiel falls facedown when he saw the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord (Ezekiel 1:28) [author's emphasis].
Other examples of falling facedown: Abram (Genesis 17:3), Moses (Exodus 34:8), Aaron and Moses (Numbers 16:22,45 and 20:6), Balaam (Numbers 22:31), Joshua (Joshua 5:14), Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 20:18), the people of Israel (Leviticus 9:24, 2 Chronicles 7:3, Nehemiah 8:6), David (1 Chronicles 21:16), Ezekiel (3:23, 9:8, 11:13, 43:3, 44:4), Daniel (8:17,18, 10:9,15), Peter, James and John (Matthew 17:6), women at the tomb (Luke 24:5), angels, the twenty-four elders and four living creatures (Revelation 7:11, 11:16).
Judgement:
"When he mentioned the ark of God, Eli fell backward off his chair by the side of the gate. His neck was broken and he died (1 Samuel 4:18a NIV).
"So then, the word of the Lord to them will become: ... so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured (Isaiah 28:13 NIV).
"When Jesus said, `I am he,' they drew back and fell to the ground'' (John 18:6 NIV).
If the first instance was part of judgment on the house of Eli, the second instance is God's judgment on the people of Israel who refused to listen to His instructions. The third instance is the falling of soldiers when they came to arrest Jesus. It is very clear from the words used that they did NOT fall forward.
So, in the Bible falling backward is pictured as a sign of God's judgement rather than an act of worship.
I got this from this website:
http://www.lovesark.net/biblenyou/sl...thespirit.html
You decide what's proper.
You know I will be back!
One, Les!
Wednesday, September 13
Tuesday, September 12
Continuation to yesterday's post!
Jonathan Edwards Was a Slave Owner
We hear a lot of good things about Edwards and these are no doubt encouraging and helpful to our faith as Christians. But rarely do we hear the negative things about Edwards, and if we do they are typically secondary issues. Certainly however, there is a more serious concern with the life of Edwards. Unfortunately, history reveals to us this whole issue of Edwards and slavery.[1] The truth is - Edwards owned slaves until the day he died. What’s more is that he was not ambivalent about this idea/practice of owning slaves because he owned them his whole life and seemed to be quite happy in that position.
God in his sovereignty always plans for events to occur. How we understand these events and their implications is a question that must be dealt with from the overarching reality of God’s complete sovereign hand. God is in control of men, events, the forces of evil that take place in this world – even slavery. Nevertheless, evil is not justified because God is sovereign.
Therefore there is this mysterious working of God in the midst of evil. God sovereignly decrees that an event take place through the agency of wicked men. What is perplexing is how God can will/desire for an even to take place in his will of decree and at the same time justly punish and condemn man for participating in an act that is contrary to his will of command, namely, what is outlined in the scriptures about how we should live and conduct ourselves. The prime example of this is the crucifixion of the Son of God. We know from Acts 4 that is was “according to the definite plan of God” that Christ was crucified. But in the same context it is stated that “lawless men” crucified the son of God.
If we really want to know Edwards the whole man, the whole person we must live with him, and see him not only in all of his glories but also in all of his faults. It may be that in some ways we have not come to truly know Edwards the man because we have not gotten to know Edwards in the context of his weaknesses and deficiencies, not least of which was his owning of slaves. Edwards was a slave owner.
Before we can speak of Edwards and slavery we must not follow our tendency which is to remove Edwards from his context and put him in our context and immediately condemn him as a wicked slave owner. We must try to understand the issue of Edwards owning slaves in the midst of his own historical context. Doing this is not an attempt to absolve Edwards of sin, but rather charitable approach to understanding just how Edwards, given his culture and context, could have been involved with slavery.
What exactly did Edwards believe about slavery? In short: He not only condoned slavery, but condemned slave trading. The only published document we have on Edwards and slavery is a letter he wrote in defense of a pastor named Benjamin Doolittle defending his owning of slaves. What George Marsden points out in his biography on Edwards is that it is unbelievable that Edwards in his vehemence against Arminianism and the Anti-Awakening movement, he nevertheless came to the defense and aid of both an Arminian and a pastor who openly opposed the awakening. Why? Benjamin Doolittle was on the verge of being removed from his office as minister of the gospel because he owned slaves. His church, and those surrounding him felt that he had forfeited the right to be a minister of the gospel in part because he owned slaves. Edwards was asked to come to his defense. Therefore, Edwards wrote a letter defending Doolittle. In this letter he attempts to provide a justification for the owning of slaves.
For Edwards this was a theological compromise. In other contexts Benjamin Doolittle would have been a staunch foe of Edwards for his erroneous theology and unorthodoxy. Thus, it is striking that Edwards comes to the defense (of all people) this man.
Obviously much more can and should be said about this issue. The goal of this blog, however, is simply to introduce some of us to another side of Edwards. While I appreciate Edwards so much I also know that he was a fallen individual who had some serious inconsistencies in his life. In some ways, I can understand both historically and contextually how Edwards could have owned slaves. Nevertheless, he is not to be commended or defended in this practice. I thank God for what we can learn from the life of Edwards, both the good and the bad.
[1] Historical information gathered from the work of Sherard Burns in his essay, Trusting the Theology of a Slave Owner in A God Entranced Vision of All Things: John Piper & Justin Taylor, Crossway Books: 2004.
Monday, September 11
Interesting Figures in Church History!
I just thought that I'd post these interesting excerpts, just goes to show that we are called to live lives of impact and not mideocrity, sometimes we join the masses in what they are doing just because we think that we cant affect change! I want to be a worldchanger, even if it's the world immediately around me!
Be encouraged!
John Wesley (a contemporary of Mr Edwards) and Charles Spurgeon were both known for their outspoken opposition to the Atlantic Slave Trade. Spurgeon is said to have spoken out so storngly against it that his semrons stopped being published in the 'states! Check out these powerful words:
John Wesley Thoughts On Slavery, published in 1774:
"[To the captains employed in this trade] may I speak plainly to you? I must. Love constrains me; love to you, as well as to those you are concerned with. Is there a God? You know there is. Is he a just God? Then there must be a state of retribution; a state wherein the just God will reward every man according to his works. Then what reward will he render to you? O think betimes! Before you drop into eternity! Think now, "He shall have judgment without mercy that showed no mercy."
Are you a man? Then you should have an human heart. But have you indeed? What is your heart made of? Is there no such principle as compassion there? Do you never feel another's pain? Have you no sympathy, no sense of human woe, no pity for the miserable? When you saw the flowing eyes, the heaving breasts, or the bleeding sides and tortured limbs of your fellow-creatures, was you a stone, or a brute? Did you look upon them with the eyes of a tiger? When you squeezed the agonizing creatures down in the ship, or when you threw their poor mangled remains into the sea, had you no relenting? Did not one tear drop from your eye, one sigh escape from your breast? Do you feel no relenting now? If you do not, you must go on, till the measure of your iniquities is full. Then will the great God deal with you as you have dealt with them, and require all their blood at your hands. And at "that day it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you!" But if your heart does relent, though in a small degree, know it is a call from the God of love. And "to-day, if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart." To-day resolve, God being your helper, to escape for your life. Regard not money! All that a man hath will he give for his life! Whatever you lose, lose not your soul: Nothing can countervail that loss. Immediately quit the horrid trade: At all events, be an honest man."
See also, John Wesley's last letter before he died, sent to anti-slavery campagner, and fellow saint, William Wilberforce.
Charles Spurgeon, sermon entitled Separating the Precious From the Vile preached in March 1860:
"But now I have a very sad thing to say—I wish that I could withhold it, but I cannot. Unless, brothers and sisters, you make it your daily business to see that there is a difference between you and the world, you will do more hurt than you can possibly do good. The Church of Christ is at this day accountable for many fearful sins. Let me mention one which is but the type of others. By what means think you were the fetters rivetted on the wrist of our friend who sits there, a man like ourselves, though of a black skin? It is the Church of Christ that keeps his brethren under bondage; if it were not for that Church, the system of slavery would go back to the hell from which it sprung. If there were no slave floggers but men who are fit for so degrading an office; if there were not found Christian ministers who can apologise for slavery from the pulpit, and church members who sell the children of nobler beings than themselves—if it were not for this, Africa would be free. Albert Barnes spoke right truly when he said slavery could not exist for an hour if it were not for the countenance of the Christian Church.
But what does the slaveholder say when you tell him that to hold our fellow-creatures in bondage is a sin, and a damnable one, inconsistent with grace? He replies “I do not believe your slanders; look at the Bishop of So-and-so, or the minister of such-and-such a place, is not he a good man, and does not he whine out ‘Cursed be Canaan?’ Does not he quote Philemon and Onesimus? Does he not go and talk Bible, and tell his slaves that they ought to feel very grateful for being his slaves, for God Almighty made them on purpose that they might enjoy the rare privilege of being cowhided by a Christian master. Don’t tell me,” he says, “if the thing were wrong, it would not have the Church on its side.”
And so Christ’s free Church bought with his blood, must bear the shame of cursing Africa, and keeping her sons in bondage. From this evil, good Lord deliver us. If Manchester merchants and Liverpool traders have a share in this guilt, at least let the Church be free of this hell-filling crime. Men have tried hard to make the Bible support this sum of all villanies, but slavery, the thing which defiles the Great Republic such slavery is quite unknown to the Word of God, and by the laws of the Jew; it was impossible that it ever could exist. I have known men quote texts as excuses for being damned, and I do not wonder that men can find Scripture to justify them in buying and selling the souls of men."
No doubt when Jesus met messrs. Welsey and Spurgeon, He said to each of them, "Well done good and faithful servant." They had the opportunity to stand up and speak out against evil, and they did so with gusto.
Be encouraged!
John Wesley (a contemporary of Mr Edwards) and Charles Spurgeon were both known for their outspoken opposition to the Atlantic Slave Trade. Spurgeon is said to have spoken out so storngly against it that his semrons stopped being published in the 'states! Check out these powerful words:
John Wesley Thoughts On Slavery, published in 1774:
"[To the captains employed in this trade] may I speak plainly to you? I must. Love constrains me; love to you, as well as to those you are concerned with. Is there a God? You know there is. Is he a just God? Then there must be a state of retribution; a state wherein the just God will reward every man according to his works. Then what reward will he render to you? O think betimes! Before you drop into eternity! Think now, "He shall have judgment without mercy that showed no mercy."
Are you a man? Then you should have an human heart. But have you indeed? What is your heart made of? Is there no such principle as compassion there? Do you never feel another's pain? Have you no sympathy, no sense of human woe, no pity for the miserable? When you saw the flowing eyes, the heaving breasts, or the bleeding sides and tortured limbs of your fellow-creatures, was you a stone, or a brute? Did you look upon them with the eyes of a tiger? When you squeezed the agonizing creatures down in the ship, or when you threw their poor mangled remains into the sea, had you no relenting? Did not one tear drop from your eye, one sigh escape from your breast? Do you feel no relenting now? If you do not, you must go on, till the measure of your iniquities is full. Then will the great God deal with you as you have dealt with them, and require all their blood at your hands. And at "that day it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you!" But if your heart does relent, though in a small degree, know it is a call from the God of love. And "to-day, if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart." To-day resolve, God being your helper, to escape for your life. Regard not money! All that a man hath will he give for his life! Whatever you lose, lose not your soul: Nothing can countervail that loss. Immediately quit the horrid trade: At all events, be an honest man."
See also, John Wesley's last letter before he died, sent to anti-slavery campagner, and fellow saint, William Wilberforce.
Charles Spurgeon, sermon entitled Separating the Precious From the Vile preached in March 1860:
"But now I have a very sad thing to say—I wish that I could withhold it, but I cannot. Unless, brothers and sisters, you make it your daily business to see that there is a difference between you and the world, you will do more hurt than you can possibly do good. The Church of Christ is at this day accountable for many fearful sins. Let me mention one which is but the type of others. By what means think you were the fetters rivetted on the wrist of our friend who sits there, a man like ourselves, though of a black skin? It is the Church of Christ that keeps his brethren under bondage; if it were not for that Church, the system of slavery would go back to the hell from which it sprung. If there were no slave floggers but men who are fit for so degrading an office; if there were not found Christian ministers who can apologise for slavery from the pulpit, and church members who sell the children of nobler beings than themselves—if it were not for this, Africa would be free. Albert Barnes spoke right truly when he said slavery could not exist for an hour if it were not for the countenance of the Christian Church.
But what does the slaveholder say when you tell him that to hold our fellow-creatures in bondage is a sin, and a damnable one, inconsistent with grace? He replies “I do not believe your slanders; look at the Bishop of So-and-so, or the minister of such-and-such a place, is not he a good man, and does not he whine out ‘Cursed be Canaan?’ Does not he quote Philemon and Onesimus? Does he not go and talk Bible, and tell his slaves that they ought to feel very grateful for being his slaves, for God Almighty made them on purpose that they might enjoy the rare privilege of being cowhided by a Christian master. Don’t tell me,” he says, “if the thing were wrong, it would not have the Church on its side.”
And so Christ’s free Church bought with his blood, must bear the shame of cursing Africa, and keeping her sons in bondage. From this evil, good Lord deliver us. If Manchester merchants and Liverpool traders have a share in this guilt, at least let the Church be free of this hell-filling crime. Men have tried hard to make the Bible support this sum of all villanies, but slavery, the thing which defiles the Great Republic such slavery is quite unknown to the Word of God, and by the laws of the Jew; it was impossible that it ever could exist. I have known men quote texts as excuses for being damned, and I do not wonder that men can find Scripture to justify them in buying and selling the souls of men."
No doubt when Jesus met messrs. Welsey and Spurgeon, He said to each of them, "Well done good and faithful servant." They had the opportunity to stand up and speak out against evil, and they did so with gusto.
__________________
Consider these when testing the Scripures:
Sound principles to identify sound doctrine:
1. Absolute Authority of Scripture
2. Consistent (not "wooden") Grammatical - Historical Interpretation of Scripture
3. Sound Logic
4. Historical Precedent in the Early Church
Consider these when testing the Scripures:
Sound principles to identify sound doctrine:
1. Absolute Authority of Scripture
2. Consistent (not "wooden") Grammatical - Historical Interpretation of Scripture
3. Sound Logic
4. Historical Precedent in the Early Church
One, Les!
Share my heart and share my burden!
To Him who is able to keep us!
Wednesday, September 6
It's the message, not the messenger!
It's the message, not the messenger!
'...HE THAT RECEIVETH WHOMSOEVER I SEND RECEIVETH ME...' JOHN 13:20
If you're wise you'll focus on the message, not the messenger. 'But shouldn't leaders set a good example; shouldn't they be called to a higher standard?' Yes, those entrusted with great responsibility experience greater correction. But God does that not; you. Though King Saul repeatedly tried to kill David, David realised God had chosen Saul. When he'd a golden opportunity to take Saul's life, David said, 'The Lord forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the Lord's anointed...' (1 Samuel 26:11 KJV). This may come as a shock; God has no perfect messengers. So He uses what He's got. And many of them are still struggling in certain areas. They're being developed even while they're delivering the message God wants you to hear. A perfect word from imperfect lips; that's how God does it. Samuel led
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